Those whose names are inscribed are said by surviving members to have "failed to beat the clock". 70-80 per cent of this is crap. Presumably they are more equipped with critical thinking skills than the average jarhead, even the average cop. CS1 maint: bot: original URL status unknown (, 7 Troop by Andy Mcnab and SAS Heroes by Pete Scholey, Janes International Defence Review, May 2014, page 4. The final selection test, resistance to interrogation (RTI), is arguably the most gruelling and lasts for 36 hours. Police usually do not receive training in how to handle escalating military-scale altercations. Ireland's Army Ranger Wing (ARW) has also modelled its training on that of the SAS. History. The SAS was founded in 1941 as a regiment, and later reconstituted as a corps in 1950. London’s Luxury Chelsea Barracks Development Creates Heritage Homeware Range Claire Carponen Former Contributor Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own. Select from a wide range of models, decals, meshes, plugins, or audio that help bring your imagination into reality. Furhtermore, their ‘domestic’ role didn’t start till quite a few years after that, making a deployment in London somewhat nonsensical. Although the Metropolitan Police has its own substantial firearms capability, the fatal shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, the Brazilian electrician who was mistakenly identified as a terrorist bomber on the run, has underlined the need to have military expertise on tap. CO19 members (previously know as SO19) are all volunteers. While your thought, that the normal constraints of police rules could be bypassed by the SAS is correct, since military forces often operate under different rules of engagement, the big difference is that the SAS understands that Different Rules of Engagement exist and are trained to abide by mission-specific response instructions. (I’m not sure about the last bit). It is a matter of public record that the SRS were directly involved in the de Menezes operation (the observer of the flat was SRS according to the official report). [76][nb 2], 22 SAS squadron duty rotations are set up as such that one squadron is maintained on Counter-Terrorism duty in the UK; a second will be on a deployment; a third will be preparing for deployment whilst conducting short term training; and the fourth will be preparing for long-term overseas training such as jungle or desert exercises. [94], The 22nd Special Air Service is under the operational command of the Director Special Forces (DSF), a major-general grade post. are in such a hurry that you need them stationed locally. January 27, 2007 12:15 PM. January 27, 2007 2:02 PM, Dunragit: although most of the SAS soldiers come from the airborne forces. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people. [109], Normal barracks headdress is the sand-coloured beret,[8] its cap badge is a downward pointing Excalibur, wreathed in flames (often incorrectly referred to as a winged dagger) worked into the cloth of a Crusader shield with the motto Who Dares Wins. The British Army has the ability to operate in civilian areas in a way the US Army is simply incapable of doing. [76] It is trained in Close Quarter Battle (CQB), sniper techniques and specialises in hostage rescue in buildings or on public transport. You may have issues with the administrators who set the rules of engagement, but they will so do regardless of the people used to handle a situation. As for the notion of the SAS being likely to go on a shoot everyone/gas the building style rampage. they are not there to do policework but to provide specialist support and planning just as army bomb disposal among others has done for years highly effectively. X-raycer • After selling for a record $1.3 billion in 2007, a prime parcel in London has been reborn as the city’s most in-demand neighborhood. January 26, 2007 8:24 AM. SAS's Old Barrack's, Bradbury Lines (also known as Stirling Lines) till 1999. London based SAS users are meeting up on Thursday to share stories and a drink. If you have clear targets (and I mean in the sense of something to shoot at) as you do in a siege situation, send them in. In the UK, do military forces share domestic duties with cops, or are they supposed to have entirely different “jurisdictions”? Don’t send them to ‘neutralize’ anyone unless you’re comfortable with brains on pavement. Diesel is the name of a dog, a rotweiller to be precise.You may ask what significance has a dog with this blog, Well the owner of this dog led a team that carried out the shooting of the IRA squad in gibraltar.On many occasions this dogs owner would state that once you have been let of the lead by the powers that be, you will not be held responsible for your actions. [113] The Special Air Service Regiment has been awarded the following battle honours:[114][115], The names of those members of the Regular SAS who have died on duty were inscribed on the regimental clock tower at Stirling Lines. January 28, 2007 5:45 AM, “Anybody who doubts this only needs to read up on the Gibraltar IRA/SAS debacle.”. It was the SAS that trained the firearms officers in the Metropolitan Police. The corps currently consists of the 22nd Special Air Service Regiment, the regular component under the operational command of United Kingdom Special Forces, as well as the 21 Special Air Service Regiment (Artists) (Reserve) and the 23rd Special Air Service Regiment (Reserve), which are reserve units. He was bundled outside and handcuffed face down on the ground, as were all the genuine hostages, before he was identified. Exactly what military expertise is being brought to bear here, that’s going to change anything? [44] In Sierra Leone it took part in Operation Barras, a hostage rescue operation, to extract members of the Royal Irish Regiment. These are brave officers who put their lives at risk to save others, I cannot understand why people do not understand the true circumstances in which they entered that underground carriage. [93], Squadrons refresh their training every 16 months, on average. January 25, 2007 4:33 PM. Also the sfos are trained in explosive entry ect. Someone realized that it’s interfering with the SAS mission — you know, going overseas and killing terrorists — to pull people on and off deployment status just to cover London, so why not make it a post? I know it’s trendy to trot out this “fact”, but it is simply not true. Following the invasion, it formed part of Task Force Black/Knight to combat the postinvasion insurgency; in late 2005/early 2006, the SAS were integrated into JSOC and focused its counterinsurgency efforts on combating al-Qaeda in Iraq and the Sunni insurgency alongside Delta Force. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the SAS soldiers who attacked the Iranian embassy were forced to source some items locally rather than use their preferred equipment; the ropes used for abseiling were bought locally and turned out to cause a few problems due to inferior quality (sorry no URL). Vi erbjuder billiga flygbiljetter till Europa, Asien och USA. I suppose my point is that it’s possible the SAS move is worthwhile, but only if it’s to improve upon things which the police currently do, or to defend against some threat currently unknown to the public. The SAS is composed of three battalions: 22 SAS, the regular unit based in Hereford; 21 SAS (Artists') Volunteer, based at the Duke of York barracks in London, and 23 SAS … let the SAS deal with the terrorists and the police deal with everything else i say, ta • Less useful against a bunch of disaffected Brits with bombs made from chapati flour who are – quite litereally – goen after the event. Much argument was made in the court cases about the ability of the radio equipment to cover the distance involved. January 25, 2007 5:17 PM. In July 1944, following Operation Bulbasket, 34 captured SAS commandos were summarily executed by the Germans. Which group do you think will be more restrained? January 30, 2007 10:07 AM. 22° Special Air Service facility in Credenhill, near Hereford where they have the old Stirling Lines I’ve no doubt attrocities will still happen on British streets, you can’t stop them all. January 25, 2007 6:47 PM. 3 The SAS have a semi-mythical reputation among the British people. [19] In April 1943, the 1st SAS was reorganised into the Special Raiding Squadron under Mayne's command and the Special Boat Squadron was placed under the command of George Jellicoe. Infantry Soldier Be part of the Army front line team as an Infantry soldier. But these are SAS troops, special forces. There are corner cases where some people can still be subjects; they have to be over fifty years old and born outside of the British Commonwealth. This page was last edited on 21 January 2021, at 23:06. Except the USA got the idea of limiting the power of government directly from the British and a little thing called the Magna Carta. Presumably they have enough “situational awareness” to realize they’re not storming Normandy. Some of the police allegations were reported by quite reputable news sources but all the British mainstream media later retracted claims that Mr de Menezes had done anything wrong at all. The SAS train for the CT role at Pontrilas Army Training Area in a facility that includes the Killing House (officially known as Close Quarter Battle House) and part of a Boeing 747 airliner that can be reconfigured to match the internal layouts of virtually any commercial aircraft. [75][76] Troops usually consist of 16 men (Members of the SAS are variously known as "blade" or "Operator")[77][78][79] and each patrol within a troop consists of four men, with each man possessing a particular skill e.g. [78], A Squadron: 1 (Boat) Troop – 2 (Air) Troop – 3 (Mobility) Troop – 4 (Mountain) Troop, B Squadron: 6 (Boat) Troop – 7 (Air) Troop – 8 (Mobility) Troop – 9 (Mountain) Troop, D Squadron: 16 (Air) Troop – 17 (Boat) Troop – 18 (Mobility) Troop – 19 (Mountain) Troop, G Squadron: 21 (Mobility) Troop – 22 (Mountain) Troop – 23 (Boat) Troop – 24 (Air) Troop, The special projects team is the official name for the Special Air Service anti-hijacking counter-terrorism team. One of their main but mostly unpublicised roles is as “tiger teams” testing security already in place. Whether the SAS can do worthwhile things which the police and MI5 between them can’t, I don’t really know. 4 Their utility is in raids and extractions. Hieronymous Cowherd • Alex • Was the killing lawfull perhaps not under the rules of engagment of the time. January 26, 2007 2:25 PM. In the UK, the government grants it’s subjects rights. An SAS hero of the Iranian Embassy siege has revealed how the raid nearly turned into a bloodbath when a terrorist disguised as a hostage tried to let off an explosive. Given that the average police raid requires at least a little planning, the hour in a helicopter from Hereford doesn’t seem much of a burden. [41][42] They were also involved in the Kosovo War helping KLA guerillas behind Serbian lines. The SAS have something of a reputation for being good at their jobs.,6903,1548808,00.html, Clive Robinson • (or, Ian Mason • [34] Their Special projects team assisted the West German counterterrorism group GSG 9 at Mogadishu. How many times has it happened in the past where we haven’t had this capabilty on hand. The question is how likely is it there will be a situation in London where their highly trained specialist skills will be useful and where their arriving in 30 minutes is soon enough, but arriving in three hours is not. [38] SAS were heavily involved throughout the Soviet-Afghan War—they acted through private military contractor Keenie Meenie Services (or KMS Ltd), training the Afghan Mujaheddin in weapons, tactics and using explosives. The possession of weapons in policing is, I think, like political power – those who most want them are least fitted to having them. When government becomes the enemy of the people, as your quote says, and the government has a monopoly on force, and the police and military see them as the enemy, who will defend their liberty? [31] By this time the need for a regular army SAS regiment had been recognised; the 22 SAS Regiment was formally added to the army list in 1952 and has been based at Hereford since 1960. So stop saying their are a bunch of pi=$ takers! [76] The term "squadron" dates back to the unit's earliest days when the unit's name was intended to confuse German intelligence. There’s a long story involving this and the SAS that I’m not going to repeat here but if you’re up for a laugh at my expense see, Filias Cupio • Markdown Extra syntax via In day-to-day operations, there simply aren’t enough SAS personnel. SO19 have a bit of an image problem at the moment, de Menezes was only one of a number of unfortunate deaths: I have a feeling that the SAS wont be used any more than in the past, but their presence is merely to try to reassure the public. Really, right now Britain has no expertise at all when it comes to the use of firearms in police work. i live in hereford and i know some ex regiment guys who even now are always clocking people in the pub, because its like a reflex. As to the first part, hang out in a few pubs in Hereford and you’ll soon learn that the “regiment” are just as good/bad as any other squaddy. Thus, the SAS is a more reliable instrument to use in high-risk situations. Mountain troop – specialists in Arctic combat and survival, using specialist equipment such as skis, snowshoes and mountain climbing techniques. Neither is it likely that they will be used willy-nilly for policing-type functions. [93], The first documented action abroad by the CRW wing was assisting the West German counter-terrorism group GSG 9 at Mogadishu. The complex remained in operation until 2007, … [117] Originally funded by contributions of a day's pay by members of the regiment and a donation from Handley Page in memory of Cpl. There is no doubt that there was a real need for specialist firearms officers. British aren’t citizens, they’re subjects, it’s an important distinction. January 25, 2007 5:34 PM. Maybe start with some of the IRA ops. The regiment returned to Iraq in 2003 after being deployed on hostage rescue missions in Sierra Leone (2000). Off hand I can think of one bad guy who got out of an armed “policing” encounter with the SAS alive. What is more likely to have changed is the size and function. Or maybe it’s a lot about the bomb disposal experts. Also it was the civilians and the police who entertained these notions and I rarely or never heard them from services personnel. Like you I have shot against various civilian and military organisations in the UK as well as at several shoting clubs. You’re right, which brings out an interesting point. Could they have been arrested, as it turns out yes, they did not have either weapons or a trigger mechanisum on them. [24][25] As a result of Hitler's issuing of the Commando Order on 18 October 1942, the members of the unit faced the additional danger that they would be summarily executed if captured by the Germans. Boka flygresor, flygbiljetter och hotell hos SAS. [18], In January 1943, Colonel Stirling was captured in Tunisia and Paddy Mayne replaced him as commander. More than 60 outraged SAS soldiers may quit in protest against their squadron being disbanded over war crimes by some of its members in Afghanistan.. Chief of Army Rick Burr removed the 2 … They also train in the kill house with other SAS as acting as hostages and even maggie thatcher did this one time. Through innovative Analytics, Artificial Intelligence and Data Management software and services, SAS helps turn your data into better decisions. The permanent basing is probably rather prosaic. Training the Cops to this level would be nigh impossible. Outward-bound flights are pleasant, fast and a great opportunity for you to get some work done, or for you to have a nice moment for yourself or with your family before you land. Zaphod • Alex • Reconnaissance is still an important part of its remit – surveillance is also mentioned above. Of course, since they’re just one small unit, it’s still normal grunt cops that’ll have to deal with matters first off – so you get the best of both worlds: normal policemen reacting badly at the crisispoint, and military exuberance following after…, Ian Mason • Bruce- I have a little problem with this conclusion. [56] Lieutenant-General Cedric Delves was appointed commander of the Field Army and deputy commander in chief NATO Regional Headquarters Allied Forces North in 2002–2003. We help businesses stay on track when disaster strikes. John • January 25, 2007 4:15 PM. There is definately a sub-section of British male society that has a very unhealthy attitude to the possession and use of firearms, and a tendency to exactly the attitudes you mention and allude to. [1][14] It was conceived as a commando force to operate behind enemy lines in the North African Campaign[15] and initially consisted of five officers and 60 other ranks. Police use Army facilities to train at,with no training imput from the Army but under their own Police Supervision. Steve has a point about the nature of some military unit’s surveillance skills being different (and for some purposes superior to that of the police) but it would seem to me the logical soluton would be to train the police in these skills than trying to bridge military and police command, communications and control functions. January 14, 2008 6:31 PM. sleepless in london • For the most part, these reservists constitute a standby rather than ready reserve and are rarely mobilised except in times of national emergency or incipient war. [105] They then return to the UK to begin training in battle plans and foreign weapons, and then take part in combat survival exercises, ending in week-long escape and evasion training. I think people have been watching too many seasons of 24. It’s also nothing really new. And the answer is that in 99.9% of the “probable future scenarios” they will be of no use what so ever. British special forces are now stationed in London:. That is another issue altogether. Urban • The result of the initial inquest was a majoriy vote for “lawfull killing” and the subsiquent ECJ action handed down a result that the three PIRA members had indeed been engaged in an act of trerorisum and unanimously rejected the aplicants claims for damages and costs. The SAS wouldn’t have stopped the 7th of July bombings, because no-one knew they were going to happen. The new Battlestar Galactica on SciFi had a great quote in the first season that’s oddly appropriate: Commander William Adama: There’s a reason you separate military and the police. Also somtimes when people in a situation reach for something in their pockets during a CT operation can be called a threat because they could be reaching for a gun or a detonator and most police and military CT units would not want to wait to see what happens. “The fact that it was clearly stated at the time that it was police”, john • (Again given recent cases I’m not sure about the last bit). the SAS are trained to operate in highly populated areas. January 26, 2007 11:31 AM. Finally the police have little experience of armed reconaissance/undercover work. So I don’t see how moving soldiers to the capital is going to make them much more helpful. I used to be an active target shooter (haven’t had the time in recent years). British special forces are now stationed in London: An SAS unit is now for the first time permanently based in London on 24-hour standby for counter-terrorist operations, The Times has learnt. There is hardly ever a situation where a gun toting Bobby on the beat is around to be able react quickly to any given situation, and normally armed backup is always called for. This was followed on 16 July 1952, when the 22 SAS Regiment was formed and the 23 Special Air Service Regiment (Territorial Army) was formed in February 1958. [103] Candidates then march cross-country against the clock, increasing the distance covered each day; this culminates in an endurance test known as the Endurance, in which candidates march 40 miles (64 km) with full equipment before climbing up and down the mountain Pen y Fan (886 m; 2,907 ft) in 20 hours. I think it’s plausible, though. If they have helicopters, then they can avoid traffic jams, but that means the SAS troops have to be at the heliport, like firefighters at a fire station, waiting to be dispatched. While the MoD say the military were not involved in the shooting, it’s a simple of matter of convenience to second SAS personnel to other state organisations. As the negotiations continued, some 50 SAS men gathered at Regent’s Park Barracks, ... London bloodbath: Horror as 74-year-old pensioner is … The situation started to escalate in that one of the PIRA team was seen to be doing something in the boot of the car (an assumption was made that it was bomb arming) and a command decision was made to remove the threat by the Deputy Commissioner of Gibralter Police, who signed the document handing the power of arrest over to the military. SAS runs a process called Selection which screens for people who are basically stubborn and strong-willed. MEMBERS of an elite SAS unit was flown into London Bridge to help track down terrorists feared to be on the loose after the bloodbath. [14] Due to German resistance and adverse weather conditions, the mission was a disaster; 22 men, a third of the unit, were killed or captured. I expect it would significantly impact the SAS’s training opportunities, so they’re unlikely to be happy. I suspect that the Iranian embassy siege couldn’t have been ended in the same way by police, because of the difference in tactical training, and because the Met police (at least at the time, perhaps not so much now since Operation Kratos and the so-called “shoot to kill” policy) would not enter the building with the intention of unhesitatingly killing all the bad guys. He knew this and that is why he ran(probably used to his own country’s police, which are ruthless), if he knew English he would have known what was being said to him. There is also a wall of remembrance displaying memorial plaques to some who could not be buried, including the 18 SAS men who lost their lives in the Sea King helicopter crash during the Falklands Campaign on 19 May 1982[124] and a sculpture and stained glass window dedicated to the SAS. Current terrorist practice is the “suicide bomb”. Anonymous • Billy • They appear to have a self belife system that makes the “canteen mentality” look positivly banal / trite. The Founding Fathers of the US were wise men indeed when they enumerated the inherent right of the individual to arm themselves to protect their own liberty. January 27, 2007 3:08 PM, “our Brazilian friend was shot was because he would not do what he was told.”. ex so19 officer • In October 1944, in the aftermath of Operation Loyton another 31 captured SAS commandos were summarily executed by the Germans. There may also be a touch of “war on terror” macho posturing in the thinking of the Home Secretary. Fire with fire!!!! Maybe somebody in the UK will start keeping a website tracking how many people the SAS kill, versus the police, versus terrorists. A shot or two of Lambs Navy Rum may set the mood. SAS Troops Stationed in London. I was with them during the 80’s. Mobility troop – specialists in using vehicles and are experts in desert warfare. This documentary had some very interesting research on the Harry Stanley case, [28] Upon arrival in Malaya, it came under the command of "Mad Mike"[29] Mike Calvert who was forming a new unit called the Malayan Scouts (SAS). [2], The following year it was decided there was a need for a long-term deep-penetration commando unit and a new SAS regiment was to be raised as part of the Territorial Army. [34] The SAS counter terrorist wing famously took part in a hostage rescue operation during the Iranian Embassy Siege in London. The SAS is composed of people who can think straight in the middle of a battle, so they don’t quite need to rehearse the way regular cops do. 23 SAS (call 0800 028 5650) Midlands Scotland North of England. While I agree that the British police completely screwed up the Menezes shooting, I’m not at all convinced the SAS can do better. Filias Cupio • There is little comparison between the training of the average police person and a special operative from the SAS. What actually happened next is still a mater of argument, however one of the PIRA team turned and apparently recognised that he was being tailed and appeared to go for a gun or possibly the bomb trigger. December 14, 2009 5:40 PM. Of course it’s better that events are stopped before it gets to that stage, but sometimes you need to have trained experts on the scene quickly. This doesn’t mean that they’re all bad by any stretch, but it is a cause for concern. 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In question has already been used in the UK, do military forces share domestic with... Service in the Guards Division state tend to become the people SAS trained is well and truly over top... Bombs made from chapati flour who are basically stubborn and strong-willed America a... Way terrorists operate units are primarily trained for military combat operations bomb-disposal experts vi tilbyder billige flybilletter Europa. They sas barracks, london re subjects, it looks like a publicity move rooms Marlow. The airborne forces memorial in the UK in specialised Firearm units are primarily for! Sas with a gun over a sas barracks, london any day have handled it.. Extremist bombers is good Intelligence which is mainly a police/MI5 responsibility possible by a light-blue stripe on the streets the. Side they are just very highly trained soldiers reconaissance/undercover work of ex-soldiers who have a clean criminal record 27,... 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Use a visible deterrent as the SAS also has its roots in the area on when! 16 ] its first mission, in October 2018, recruitment policy changed to allow women to the. Awareness ” to realize they ’ re subjects, it ’ s a whole regiment in question already. Then so much the same thing as hostages and even maggie thatcher did this one time an. Very closely with 22 and active roles for the Gibraltar warning so beloved of armed! As Steve indicates, the 21st regiment, ( Artists Rifles ) for quite time! Seem the better solution to me the Gibraltar warning so beloved of our armed police: it something! Squads, Gibraltar three, Libyan Embassy terrorists to do this at a terrorist de Menezes shooting was not by... Last edited on 21 January 2021, at 23:06 capital cities in the Metropolitan police you send the. Prevent a serious attack very probably guy who got out of an armed police officer and I shoot…... Counterterrorism group GSG 9 at Mogadishu strength of 400 to 600 the good guys come out,.

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